Converting a white nationalist

I recently listened to an episode of Sam Harris' Waking Up podcast in which he had a discussion with ex-white nationalist Christian Picciolini. They discuss Christian's drastic 180 from leading a neo-nazi skin head group to his extremely important anti-hate activism. The interview is a must listen so I will post a link here. https://samharris.org/podcasts/121-white-power/

Christian warns us that much of the left's counterattacks on white nationalists is backfiring. He argues that in the same way that the "War on Terror" lead to the development of ISIS and further cases of terrorism, the violence and marginalization of young, fairly moderate white males is making them more vulnerable to white nationalist ideologies. Screaming from the extremes isn't working. He advocates that we need to start in the middle (we all want better jobs, better health, kids to be happy) in order to humanize each other.

Jon Haidt teaches us that through more interpersonal, cross-group contact we can often bridge social and ideological gaps that initially appear to be insurmountable. There are numerous cases of neo-nazis who change their ways primarily because they had an experience socializing with someone from the group they hate. Think of American History X when Danny (neo-nazi) works alongside Lamont (African-American) in prison and they bond over basketball. Interpersonal, cross-group contact between anti-islamists and muslims has been effective in producing paradigm shifts. I've seen it work with fundamentalist christians and homosexuals, liberals and conservatives, even Lakers and Celtics fans.

Image from the film  American History X

When we hear such toxic ideology we want to censor it, shame it, and maybe even fight it physically. Picciolini admonishes us to do otherwise. Steve Pinker argues that the problem with the left's silencing of free-speech, with them not letting conservative views, or any other taboo ideas being discussed, is that people aren't developing intellectual antibodies to these ideas. So a lot of at risk youth will hear ideas based on empirically sound data that was censored by the academic established and then unearthed by some racist ideologue who can now state that not only are these things "true" but that the liberal, Jewish, Muslim, X,Y,Z media is trying to keep it from you. Kids aren't allowed to hear dissenting views and are therefore not prepared to argue the complexities of historical racism.

In order to learn and progress we have to be more willing to go where the conversations are not going. The consequence of not doing so is that the underlying hate can spread insidiously and rapidly underground without counter-argument. The best way to change someone's mind when you hear something you find prejudice is to truly listen and find the thread of humanity that you still share.

Listen to each other.

Perhaps no human has understood the importance and power of proper listening than Carl Rogers. He proposed a method of conflict resolution in which each person can state his or her case only after he or she has first restated the ideas and feelings of the previous speaker accurately, and to that speaker's satisfaction. It would be almost impossible to break into violence after an argument that was kept under these parameters.

Picciolini reminds us in his interview with Sam Harris that white nationalism is a social group first. The ideology comes second. People who feel marginalized swarm to these groups. It's how ISIS recruits it's how the Alt-Right gains support. It's why young people join gangs. It's why young people join religions. It's why a lot of straight kids join GSAs in their schools. They feel marginalized. They feel like outsiders and these group offer them, for better or worse, a community.

The left is typically understanding of young black males who join a gang. They find belonging and community and purpose there at a time and place where those basic human needs are scarce, so of course they gravitate to whatever social structure that can offer that. Of course that kid  joined ISIS. Western society marginalized him and he found people who made him feel like he was a part of something grand. The US needs to stop policing the world and driving more people to extremist groups like ISIS. Right? So, is it not also understandable why white males would feel the same way? And wouldn't further shaming and violence and marginalization just push them deeper into the heart of their toxic, ideologically driven "community". When the radical left adopts the same tactics of their enemies, do they become much different than their enemies?

It's easier to call someone a hate-group if they are talking about something that makes you feel uncomfortable. But all things being equal, if you are promoting violence and revenge then you are in a hate group too. Everybody thinks that their brand of hate is justified.

These days we are constantly calling for more critical thinking skills. This is difficult to do if dissenting opinions aren't allowed to be heard and critically dismissed or defeated. The reality is that when most people complain about a lack of critical thinking skills it is always in criticism of the other side. I think critically. You're just wrong and should shut up. I think that shows a real insecurity in one's beliefs or their ability to argue them.

In closing, I recognize that I have written about topics that are extremely sensitive and complex but that's exactly my point. They ARE complex. Prejudice is not as easy and good and evil. Believing that is more about moral superiority than actually wanting to make the situation better. I also recognize that I write this from the position of privilege. Being white and male I haven't had to worry about the colour of my skin getting in the way of my employment or my relationships. I don't have the slightest idea of what it's like to be discriminated for the colour of my skin so I get that my approach here might seem naive. But I do think that I understand people pretty well. I understand how motivated reasoning works and I understand a little about the importance of belonging and community. I also have a few ideas based on solid psychology about how people can change I personally believe that if you listen to the interview posted above you will hear an approach that has a much greater net positive than identity politics and race wars.